On today’s episode of Confessions of a Top Producing Real Estate Agent, How to be content with your real estate business and frankly your life, because they’re so intertwined, even if you aren’t quite where you want to be at this point. So even though you’re striving and you want more and you want a better business, how can you be content in this very moment with the business you have? That’s what we’re talking about on today’s episode. Welcome to this episode of Confessions of a Top Producing Real Estate Agent. I’m your host, Jennifer Myers, listen in, as I share exactly what I did to go from not being able to sell a house for years to becoming one of the top 1% of agents in the US to even opening my own brokerage full of agents helped me serve all the clients that were coming my way. I taught those agents the same strategies I use and they too became top producing agents. Now through this podcast and agentgradschool.com, I’m sharing those same modern marketing and business strategies with you. Most of which I learned from looking outside the real estate industry, no fluff, no theory, no outdated sales techniques or paying for leads, just the exact steps to get you the real estate business you’ve always wanted. And the life outside your business, you’ve always wanted to let’s make it happen and dive into today’s episode. It seems so often in the real estate industry, we are told that we should want more, or we should do more. We should have more clients. We should build a team, have more people have more things, right? To be responsible up for, get more leads, be everywhere, more social media posts, more video, more and more and more be here, be there, do this, do that. And without running in the back of our minds, oftentimes we can get off course. We can start feeling like we aren’t doing enough. We aren’t good enough. We aren’t where we should be. And sometimes we start beating ourselves up and believe it or not, that can be part of the reason why we never get where we want to go. And so one question that I think we all should be asking ourselves is how can we be satisfied? How can we be content with the life and the businesses that we have right now, and still be ambitious, looking towards maybe building a bigger business in the future, how can we have that balance between both being totally content with what we have, but also really understanding what we want and going after it in a way that feels good, every step of the way? Well, my guest today, Jamie Varon, she wrote a book on exactly how to do that. It’s called radically content, how to be satisfied in an endlessly dissatisfied world. And I see it as a manual, really, on how to be satisfied when it feels like the world and every social media post. And every time we scroll anywhere, or we talk to anyone we’re told what we can’t, we shouldn’t be content yet that we should always be striving and wanting more and her book and her way of looking at success. And she’s a very successful designer. Somebody I’ve actually been working with for over 12 years. She says that there’s a way to be content right now, no matter what is going on, no matter what your results are. And so I can’t wait to share it. This conversation that I had with her about this topic, and also about her book on the same topic, we talk about why we must separate our self-worth from the success of our business, how to be content with the business and the life that we have right now, while still being ambitious and going after what you want by looking at doing something new should be seen as an experience and how with, excuse me, an experiment and how it looking at something that way can help you avoid that terrible feeling of feeling like a failure and so much more. In this episode, this conversation was such a breath of fresh air and exactly what I needed at the moment. And I hope it feels the same for you. Here we go. Giving this to me when I was like graduating from college, I feel like, so for anybody listening, who has a graduate, whether it’s high school or college, every graduate needs this book. And also those of us who keep being like, is it really, is this how it really is? Or is this should be better. This should be different. Like, you have those thoughts in your mind read this book and you’ll be like, oh, it’s not just me. Like, Yeah. I, I definitely feel like for teenagers, for graduates, it’s like a guide. And for those of us who are now older, a little bit older, it’s like it’s permission-giving. That’s what someone said to me. And I was like, I’m using that because it is very, like, I’m taking that as that’s not mine, but I’ll dig it. But it’s very permission-giving in that. Yes. There’s a reason why we’re like this anxious, this hard on ourselves, this filled with self-doubt. And it’s not just you, like, I’ve always been, I always felt like the weird one. I always felt like the outsider. So this was my, this was almost like me honoring my 16-year-old, 21-year-old selves of like, this is the book that I wish I could have read them too, because it would have really helped me see things in a different way. Otherwise, besides just like, okay, I guess I just have to be miserable for a while. And then maybe I’ll achieve enough that I’ll be able to be happy at some point. It’s like, I look back now. I’m like, really? That was my, and that was my thinking. And it wasn’t even like, I believe this and there’s an alternative. It was just like, That’s how it goes. That’s how it goes. Like you have to earn your way into happiness and you don’t get to like, love yourself or be happy unless you’ve done enough. Obviously, that’s just cheating. That’s delusional. That’s what I kept telling myself. And this is one of the reasons I wanted to have you on this particular podcast, because I think the real estate industry is so, you know, that’s what they tell you that you’re until you’re a top producing agent. And so you’re selling all these houses until you are worthy of attention or worthy of clients. Then you’re kind of just not like you’re either successful or your nobody, you know? And so how do we as real estate agents, as salespeople, as people, entrepreneurs, how do we get out of this cycle of thinking that we have to earn our happiness through success? Can you talk about that? Definitely. A big part of the book is I feel like divorcing our worth and value from our work. And we hear that a lot, but like, what does that actually mean? And to me that means like my worth and my value and how happy I am. My joy. It’s completely unconditional. God. I’m not here to try to like, find different levels of it. Like, okay, well, I got, I sold that house, so I get a little hit of worth, but I didn’t sell that house. So now it’s kinda gone down, like, we’re always on this rollercoaster, we’re on these levels, we’re on these, you know, we’re measuring it all the time. And I think it’s important to get to a place where like, you are a human outside of what your profession is and you don’t have to base your actual worth and value on your work, which means then you free yourself to be able to look more rationally at your work. You know, like I’m a very ambitious person. That’s the reason that I wrote Radically Content is because I noticed that there were a lot of extremes. It’s either like hustle, hustle, hustle, strive, never give up, you sleep when you’re dead, or it’s like, you know, go live in a van, right? Yeah. It’s like, all right. I mean, I’m not interested in either of those things. So where’s this, like, middle ground. And I think most of us want this kind of middle ground where, you know, we work hard. We put in the time because it’s fulfilling. Like we live in society, we have to pay for things and we want to be good at what we do. But we also have to know that it’s going to take time to build that. There’s always going to be someone doing better or worse than us in these metrics. And it’s just not worth it to be on that ladder of who’s doing better. Who’s doing worse. Let me measure, let me compare. Let me do this. It’s so exhausting. It actually keeps us, I think, from doing really beautiful work. And it makes us really focused on like getting our worth and value from like these things that are really out of our control. Like, you know, I mean, you know, I don’t even have to be a real estate agent to know that it, you can put significant time and energy into something. And if that person is not like, if it’s not ready, it’s not ready. And are you going to then be upset with yourself and find your worth plummeting? And then that goes into how you are with your family, how you are with your friends, how you treat your body, your health, your mental health, all of this, it all starts plummeting because of a thing that’s like really kind of, not in our control. So for me, like, being radically content is just the foundation. Like I get to just be completely worthy and valuable as I am. And the rest of it is just like expressing myself. I get to do work. That lights me up. I get to make money. That makes me feel good. And I get to, you know, have experiences that that money provides and things like that. But I’m not like, oh, I am a worthy human being. And I can be happy only when I get to certain milestones because that hurts like that. And also you just wait for a long time because we all know what it feels like. You get to a certain milestone and then that happiness and fulfillment doesn’t automatically click in and we go, oh wait, I just didn’t do enough yet. Oh, I got to move the target now, instead of going, what did I think this was going to give me? We go, well, it’s just not enough yet. I just did it. Okay. Now, now I need to sell a $2 million house because that’s the thing, that’s the thing that’s going to make me happy. And it’s like on that thinking we just wait and wait and wait. And when do we get to feel that moment of true contentment with a job? Well done a life that’s being lived to the fullest. Like if we don’t cultivate that, if we don’t be it, if we’re not intentional about that, we’ve seen it. People who live their whole lives, never feeling any of that. Well, you have a chapter in your book called I’ll be happy when, which I love, because this is something I tell our students all the time, how you feel right now about yourself and about your business is exactly how you’re going to feel when you hit those big milestones. I know I’ve been through it. I know you’ve been through it, right? Like when you’re first starting out, there’s so much like as an entrepreneur, right? And as real estate agents, we are entrepreneurs. So it’s hard to make things not personal. When a client doesn’t pick you and you know, this mural client work, like if a client doesn’t pick you, how do you not make it personal? That’s my question. How can you be readily radically content and not make, make something personal? That’s a hard one. And I think, well, you know, the way that I look at it now, and this took time to build up to this is like, there is some reason that that was not going to be for me. And I can’t see it at the moment. And because what’s happened is from my own client work. I know what it feels like when I force something like, oh, okay, I’ll make my prices lower or I’ll do it for less or I’ll do more for less. And that’s always the worst experience ever. And I wished, and I look back and I go, I wish I had not done this. And we don’t know why something’s meant to miss us, but we really have to trust that it is, especially if like, okay, you’re doing all the things you’ve, you’ve hit, you know, like that’s a way of being rational with yourself. It’s like, I’ve done the things. I went through my list. I believe I did a good job. And if it doesn’t work out, then like you really have to release a lot of that. Even though it feels really personal, it’s going to make doing that work very, very, very difficult. If you keep taking it personally, personally. So it’s like, you have to really work at that to not be personal and trust that, like, that was a good opportunity on paper, but maybe that client was like gonna be my nightmare client. Like, we all know the nightmare clients, God help them. But like the nightmare clients take up so much energy and you wish you’re like, oh my God, why didn’t I just let this one, miss me? Why did I try so hard? Because here’s the thing. When we take it personally, we’re not fighting to get the client we’re fighting for our worth. Right. We’re thinking, they said no to me. Right? Like they said no, to me as a human, not, I’m just not their real estate agent. Right. They have slapped me in the face and told me I’m the worst human being that’s ever lived. And so we’re fighting to be like, no, that can’t be true. If you sign with me, then I’ll know that I’m not. And then it’s a real bittersweet signing, even if it does come back around. But that’s the thing, like, it’s not really about your worth because there’s so many different reasons why people go with different people. Totally. I mean, it’s just, that you can’t account for it. And it could just be if we want to get real, it could just be an energy thing. They don’t feel it wasn’t lining up also when we can like, kind of take our worth out of it, what mostly happens. And I’m sure you know about this too, is like, you look back and you go, you know what? We really weren’t vibing, you know, like it wasn’t really like a fit and it’s kind of the way that we are with dating. Like sometimes when we’re like insecure, it’s like, I want them to like me. And then you look back. You’re like, do I even like, Yeah, It’s like, I didn’t even want to work with them, but because my worth is on the line and my value as a human being and I’m feeling personally rejected. I feel like I need something from them to prove that wrong. But it’s like if you don’t have that on the line, if that’s not in the equation, you can just go, all right. I mean, next, next Separated. Like, how do you write? Because as entrepreneurs, I think we, for some reason, and I don’t know if it’s, because we’re told this on the outside, it’s almost like we’re told if you can sell a lot of houses and you can get a client right. Then you’re good. And if you can’t, you’re bad or it makes you feel like you’re bad at this. And I think what happens naturally is that people go into this tailspin of like, can I do this? Is this, you know, how do I, how do I get better at this? How do I get a client? Can I do this? And I think there was a part in your book that you talk about the doubt trickling in and then having it, letting it stop you. So like, how do we get, how do we separate that so that we can stop the doubt and keep moving forward and say next with like a positive feeling about ourselves, it’s hard. It’s very hard. And I wouldn’t say, I think this is also why we try to collect a lot of achievement and approval is because we think that’s going to go away and it does like, that’s okay. It doesn’t need to go away. It’s how we respond and react to it. That has to change. So it’s not saying, oh God, well, you know, if I was really good enough, I wouldn’t feel this way. It’s like, no, because as entrepreneurs, we will always be looking for a new challenge. And that’s always going to require a bit of growth that we’re not, we’re not there yet. You know, like we’re progressing, that’s the whole point, like when you want to level up or anything like that. So the best way is like, just being aware of it to start with and knowing that like, it will come up. You know? I mean, when I get rejected or something like that, I mean, I’m, I’m in the publishing industry as if the rejection isn’t, that is everywhere. I mean, even with like, I was getting rejected like a month ago for something else, I was like, oh, this is humbling. You know? And I just have to remember that my intention, because, okay, here’s the thing you have total free will. Right? You can decide to have your worth go at worth and value, go up and down and take it super personally, keep, keep doing that. If you’re loving that great. You know, like if you’re a wild, right, it’s a wild ride. But if some people maybe that’s exciting to them, maybe that motivates them, not me, but if you’re not like that, then you can choose a different path. And it’s going to take some time, but it’s just about recognizing, like, when something comes up, you can say, all right, first of all, did I really want to work with them? Like, was I really jazzed about them? Well, I’ll just give you those specific examples of like losing a client or not getting signing a client. Was I really jazzed about them? Do I feel like I really, from, from the knowledge that I have now, did I do my steps, All of that, from what I know now, like I know I’m going to get better. Like I’m going to outright radically content, right? Like 10 years from now, whatever I write, it’s going to be way better than radically content doesn’t mean I don’t publish Radically Content. It just means that I am where I’m at right now. So I have the knowledge that I have now. So you have the knowledge that you have now and you see, okay, did I do this? If not, did I miss a couple of steps? Did I let my doubt, make me miss a couple of steps? Did I, you know, certain things like that, where you look at it a little bit more rationally. And I think that’s the start of really taking it apart and like looking at it differently because, and, and the really big thing, and I want to say it again is like, it just always comes up, you know, like it doesn’t go away. So this idea of one day when I have sold enough houses and done enough things, it’ll go away. That’s an impossible thing. So then you’ll always feel like you’re not good enough, or there’s something still wrong with you. If you, if you buy into that belief, because that’s the promise. I think that’s what they kind of promise is like one day, look at this super confident person that’s trying to sell you something, you know, look at this super confident person that is pretending. It’s all perfect. That wants a lot of your money. That’s when you’re like, okay, so that they’re selling me a lifestyle. That’s not true because there’s always going to be other things to accomplish. There are always going to be new levels. But if you’re constantly in that, like, “that’ll take myself out” way, that’ll give me that confidence. That’ll give me worth and value. It’s a real big roller coaster. Yeah. And like you said, in your chapter, I’ll be happy when the numbers come to work. Right. Because then you achieve the thing that you’re upset about you didn’t achieve and then you achieve it. And then it just you’re like, that’s it. Like, I can still remember, all I wanted in the beginning of my career, it was to make six figures. Like if I could just make six figures a year, I mean, in my head, my whole life would be fun. Right. And then you make six figures and you’re like looking around like, oh, I just got more problems. Like I’m busier than I’ve ever been. Right. And then when you, when you, then when you’re at a hundred thousand and you’re like, oh, well, if I get to a million a year, then all these problems will go away or I’ll feel different. I’ll feel better right. The time. And we convince ourselves that that’s like, good, you know? Cause, the alternative is what I’m going to be content with. And then I’m just going to be complacent and give up. Right. And I think that’s the fallacy. Right? Cause we think, at least I think, I thought until reading your book was like, but isn’t that where my striving and my motivation comes from is from the thinking that I’m going to, things are going to be different. Right? Like, so how do you, how do you strive and be motivated and be ambitious and content the whole time? Yeah, it’s really, so I think it’s all about reframing, why you’re doing certain things, you know, so I have a foundation, like there are certain things that I have to do that are non-negotiable for me that have no end game. Like that’s really important for me that aren’t results-oriented. So, you know, the way that I eat, the way that I exercise, the way that I, you know, I journal, I do certain things that are just for me. So that’s, that’s the standard. And I also just like do not delay my joy and happiness for the one day. So that means I really have to be present. And I know we hear this cliche all the time, but it is really important being present, celebrating the small wins, celebrating like your growth that no one is going to clap for you on Facebook or something. Like, did you learn something new? Did you, you know, even from this podcast, did you have some sort of revelation like celebrate that, notice that take some time to sit with it instead of just going to the next thing like, oh, it’s not enough. I need the bigger thing. And the way that I look at new challenges now is really like, what’s the next experience that I want in my life? Like, what do I want to experience next? Do I want to experience what it’s like to be a published author on like a podcast booked for and having my book out in the world not is my book in a sell well, and if it doesn’t is my whole worth content contingent upon that and now will, I finally know I’m not a good enough writer. No. Like I’m in the experience of this, of bringing my book to the world, bringing my work and my art to the world. And that is how I kind of look at it differently. Instead of once I get, like, once my book is out, then I’ll be happy. Like right, no. Right. I’m already like good as I am. You know, that took some time that took some effort that will just be like a heightened experience. It might bring me opportunities that all, that all have new experiences with it already has. And like, you know, so it’s more like if we look at it with the pot, with the real estate world, it’s like, okay, I get to that six figure. And I really enjoy that experience. Maybe like you maintain that for a little bit. Like you really have to be too like really discerning on whose advice you take. And like you have to, because you have to look at their whole picture, like, okay, say you’re taking advice from some douchey guide. Who’s know, got all these Nice on this. Sorry, this nice guy. Who’s got his stuff. I’m not saying anything about the guy, but like there’s someone that’s presenting that whole, like once you get to these levels and this and that, and what do you know about this person’s life? Like, are they, are they present with their success? Are they enjoying? Are they feeling good about themselves? Do they feel like fulfilled in any way? Do they have good relationships with friends and family? How do they, you know, like what’s their day? Like, is it so overrun with responsibility that they’re never slowing down to even enjoy their success? I mean, I used to have a client who had so much money and she, all she ever wanted was the Porsche in the driveway. And then she got it and she didn’t even drive the porch because she was never home because she was out making the money for the porch and the big house and all of that. And I’m not saying that’s everybody, we can still have money and be able to enjoy our lives. But when it’s kind of out of balance and when we’re thinking that that’s the thing, and then we cause then we’ll like bloat our lives with all like what you were saying, where you got to that six figure, but you didn’t account for any of the other things in your life that there’s like, well, I’m right. It’s like, I got to the six figure and that’s that alone is supposed to make me happy. Nevermind. Like, am I taking care of myself? Do I like myself? Like, do I Like how I earned that six figures? Is it sustainable? Can I do it consistently? Will I enjoy making that six figures? Because I think all of us, when we think about the money, it’s really not about the money. It’s about the thing that we think the money will bring us or how it will make us feel. Yeah. I talked to so many of our students and they say things like, I want to be a real estate agent because I want to spend more time with my kids. And at the same time they want to, you know, have this big team or this big business. And I think sometimes we get caught up and you have a chapter in your book about this called like the more is always better. Right, right. Like, I’m not saying you can’t have it all. I’m just saying like you can’t sell 400 houses and be home with your kids at three o’clock. I mean, there probably are people that can, but really figuring out like more, isn’t always better. Right? Like really figuring out what is it that you want for your life. And, and I think you gave, I think it was in, in your book where you gave an example about people who are having all these clients and having all this staff and they ended up making about the same money as if they were a solo preneur. Right. And it’s like, just cause you have all this flashing glitz, which we see so much in the real estate industry, we see these big teams. And I keep thinking like, you know, how much it takes to feed every one of these mouths and how has them every day and all the computers and all the advertising, and then wondering to myself and sometimes knowing what their take home is more is not always better. Exactly. I mean, we have to look at, I always, with everything, I look at the cost, like there’s always a cost to that kind of success that people say you’re supposed to have. I mean, I I’ve had my design business for what, 13 years. And I have kept it me the whole time, because I know I had a business partner for like a year. And I know all I did was work harder and have to take on more clients in order to pay her. And it was like, what am I doing? You know, like, this is, this is, this is a joke, right? Like I looked really successful and I think you’re right. It’s more, it’s so much more about the money is how we are trying to feel. But also it’s about what it’s gonna look like externally. And I know I’m sure with the real estate industry that external, the image is a lot of it. And like you can interact with That. We think it is. I Think it is right. We’ve been told that’s what it is. But really, you know, I know interrogate a lot of this. Like when people are just sharing, like their metrics of success, I’m like, there’s so much more to this picture. Like, you know, cause what you’re saying, I mean, to me, I don’t find it. I wouldn’t feel successful if all of my day was putting out fires, constantly putting out fires or feeling like, you know, when people are always saying like, oh, I wish I had more time in the day. Like to me, success is about having like an abundance of time, more so than anything else. Like I want money because it gives me time. It buys me time. Right. And not having, you know, keep adding, cause you, Jamie, I know how in demand you are, you could have a whole agency if you chose, you could, but you don’t want to. And just knowing the, of like, this is what I want to do with my day and not necessarily having to make it what it could be if you wanted something else. Right. Exactly. Cause you know, also what happens, this, this happened to me. I, I got a position as a writer at a website and I thought that it was like the greatest thing ever. But then, because I was like, so good, sorry. Cause I was so good at my job. They promoted me to a manager and then all I did was managed people and I didn’t even write and say Like, I want to write, Write I was on a rag. I came here to write, don’t get me, don’t get it. I’m like, I don’t want to do this. And now I have to manage and micromanage all the writers. So, you know, it’s another thing too, like recognizing like what you just said. If someone got into, they want to be a real estate agent to spend time with their kids, but then the business of being a real estate agent and this constant constant constant pursuit takes them away from time with their kids. It’s like, is the cost worth it? Or can you take on less, be more efficient, get better systems, not try to mark your life by external things of success because you recognize a really empty and not very fulfilling when like, okay, so yeah. You can tell people that you have a team of 10 people, but like, can you tell people that, you know, what’s going on in your kids’ lives? It’s like, we’re very skewed. And I’m not saying that this is what we think of on our own. We just come to these conclusions on our own and we’re all messed up and broken and everything. It’s like, no we’re taught this. We’re absolutely taught this. So it’s not like, oh, you’re doing something wrong. It’s just about, you have to be very discerning with your life. Like that’s something I’ve really noticed is that like not everyone is an authority. And I have to look at, when I take advice from someone, I have to look at their whole picture. I have to see that like they live a life that feels very, not aspirational to me, but something, not this like doable and looks, it looks fun. Like I now see people who have a business with an abundance of time as like to me, that’s the aspiration. And I have that now. And I could have probably more of it, but you’re right. I mean, I could have an agency that was always something. I mean, I could take on so many more clients fully and yet I know the cost to that. And some people, they might like that, that might be enough for them. And of course we need enterprising people. And if that really does light you up, but for me, that really always felt like it’s more work than it’s worth. You know? Like where’s the benefit for me. I need to have a benefits, my business, my life. I think also I’ve always been, you know, as much as I’m ambitious and I like to work and I’m very creative. I like to not work too. I really do. I enjoy that just as much. And I feel like we got away from that. Like, that’s like a weird thing to say. Not like I’m Like the girl, Like, wait, I’m off. It’s amazing. Yeah. Ultimately that’s where we all, I mean it listen and we’re not thinking like if the agency or having a team is what drives you. And I will say there’s people who are so gifted at that. What we’re saying here is that it doesn’t have to be that and to slow down and ask yourself, what is it that I want, regardless of what the outside world is telling me, I quote unquote should have, or what would be a mark of success to define your own version of that, whatever that means and be willing to say like no to the noise. Yes. To here’s what I want and then go off and do it in a way that you feel good in the pursuit of that as well. Exactly. And not make like, I mean, your work is a part of you, but it’s not like your full identity like that, that doesn’t mean, I think some people think that that’s, what’s gonna make them successful is like really having a tight grip. Like that’s, that’s my identity. That’s who I am. I gotta hustle it, this and everything. And it’s like, it’s totally okay to be like, okay, I love real estate because it gives me flexibility. Like I used to say all the time, I love working for myself because it gives me flexibility. And then if I wanted to leave the computer at 2:00 PM, I’d be like feeling guilty. Yeah. That’s the point I got the freaking flexibility of I’m going to sit there fast and around on my computer until 5:00 PM. Just to seem like I put in the day, you know, when I can maybe be efficient, I’m finished at a certain time. And it’s just like, I used to do that all in my twenties. And I’d say like, I would have to, you know, if I went on a trip, it’s like, I have to at least put some time into the computer and you know, and I’m like, I got into this for the flexibility because I wanted time. And then I wasn’t even giving myself time. And if I was taking time off, I was just thinking about work and distracted and not really present with anyone Terrible. Like at some point I think this is what really switched it for me. I was like, Jamie, like you, because also working for yourself is very uncertain and inconsistent sometimes. So I was like, Jamie, if you’re not going to even take advantage of the perks that you have, you might as well just go get, like, get your health insurance and get an, you know, get salary, Like go play ping pong with some people in life, you know, at a startup or something. And you know, and that really like kind of changed my perspective on things. Cause I was like, I mean, I gotta know why I’m in this and it’s not to like tell other people how quote unquote successful I’m doing and like, and use what they’re saying. And instead go to meet, go to myself and say, it’s completely okay. Like, it really changed a lot for me to be like, you know what, it’s completely okay to like have design, be this thing that I love doing that makes money. And isn’t more than that. Like, I don’t have to try to win awards with it. I’m not trying to be like, Even though you could both know if you applied for an award, you would get it right. I mean, right. Maybe that’s a comfort, but, But I don’t need that. But with my writing, for example, I do want like bigger, you know, aspirations and things like that. But it’s like, I can also say to myself, like design is this thing that, you know, is like fun for me that also makes money and supports me. Like almost feel like I’m my own patron in that sense. Right. Which how it applies to real estate is like, it’s okay if it’s not like, you’re, you can put boundaries around your time. You can say you only do you only work from these hours. So you can pick up your kids at three, you know, like you don’t have to be in service of it. Like it can serve you. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s you who makes those decisions, right? Like, and you could want to pick your kids up at three and I might want to, you know, have off between, you know, every morning or whatever. But I think what we’re saying is look inward and make those definitions for yourself. One thing that I think is important and that you put into the book is this unlearning and then the learning. And so what I think, what we’re talking about here is just recognizing the things that maybe we’re all doing on autopilot that are things that maybe we learned are quote, unquote, normal, but you have the right to say, like, I don’t want to do it this way. So that becomes like the unlearning portion, right? Yeah. And then What’s so what’s so wonderful is once you start just questioning and like asking yourself is more better, will I be hot? Can I be happy now on my way to wherever it is that I’m going and all sorts of other things like social media, let’s save that one for a different day. There’s a whole chapter on social media. I love it. It’s called social media makes me feel bad. Right. And how to get out from under that. So all this, and then you move on to the learning chapters, which I love. I love every one of those chapters, but there’s two that I think I want to touch here is one is the freedom of consistency. And can you talk about, I think so often we feel or think that we’ll be shackled by discipline and consistency, but you say no, that consistency and discipline are actually the things that give you the freedom that you want your life. Can you talk a little bit about that and how we do that? Yeah. It’s really interesting how we think of like consistency and discipline as being shackles, when really procrastination, anxiety, this feeling of not putting in the time and effort into our dreams is actually the shackles, because that is what hurts us the most. It’s like, I mean, and I get it. I’m not saying all of this is what I thought. Yeah. I wrote the book on it because I needed that for me. I’m not saying I figured it all out. And I came out the womb like perfect. But you know, I just with consistency, what I recognized, cause I was this in the same boat of like, oh, I’m a free spirit. I need to, I don’t want monotony all this stuff. And then I recognized, I was like, when I put a little time, every day into the things that matter to me and I put in that work of consistency, what then happens is when the day is done. And I know that I’ve done those steps, I feel completely free. I’m like, I’m done. You know, I don’t need to be thinking more. I should be doing more. I need to be working on this. And we don’t realize until we start being consistent and like taking these small steps, we don’t realize how much of our mental and emotional energy is being used by like, why didn’t you get this done? Why don’t you do that? Why are they working on all the time? Like we, right when we go to sleep, it’s like, here we go. Like my favorite time of the day to just get my worrying in was 3:00 AM. If I saw that I woke up at 3:00 AM. I was like, oh no. That’s like what? I think a lot of us don’t recognize is you can change your mindset. That’s important. That’s why there’s the, to unlearn part of the book. It’s like, okay, these are mindset shifts. Awareness of these will, will actually transform a lot of things. You don’t always have to do something. But then I think what a lot of us recognize and why discipline has become almost like a thing that we, a lot of us talk about is because there’s something confidence building about taking action about honoring your word. You know, if we’re constantly breaking promises to ourselves, it causes a true disconnect. Like not only are we not doing the things that we say we’re going to do, but we’re having a hard time establishing trust with ourselves. I mean, think of it with someone else. If you had a relationship with someone and they were, they were saying, you know what? I care about you. I value you. But then constantly breaking promises to you. You’d be like, this doesn’t really match up same with ourselves. And so there’s something, especially for entrepreneurs because it, it, because it requires so much self motivation, you have to be able to rely on yourself because that’s actually a really hard way to, it’s hard to grow if you can’t rely on yourself, cause you’ll actually kind of limit it. If you feel like, you know what, I can’t be consistent. I can’t, you know, I, I’m not going to be able to handle it when things grow. And, but when you can build up that consistency and I’m saying like consistency in, okay. And you send that email out once a week, when you say you’re going to send it no matter what, like even just something as small as that, it’s like, it shows you that you’re serious that you’re taking yourself seriously. You’re keeping your promises to yourself and it builds your confidence up so much more because what it does is it takes the pressure off the results too, because like you’ve already done. That’s why I said at the beginning, when we were talking about like, did I do my, did I do my steps? And we can often see like, you know what I kinda didn’t because I don’t, I’m not being consistent. And like, yeah. I also, I just have to say like, in terms of very tangibly clients won’t know it because they’re not conscious of it, but they will respond to your consistency. Like if It’s always been so important for me, if I say, I mean, you know, you’ve been working with me a long time, I’m consistent, I’m reliable. You do not hire me. And then go where’s Jamie. I mean, and that has been the cornerstone of my business because you know, also real estate agents and design professionals are probably really similar in that. They’re known for being probably pretty inconsistent and a little bit flaky sometimes. And I, I decided that my way of like setting myself apart would be like, we get on the phone. I tell you by 5:00 PM today, I’ll send you a proposal. You better bet that proposal will be there by 5:00 PM. This no matter what, right? Like this is how you build trust with yourself. And it’s how you build trust with your clients. And no one, especially with a decision, as big as buying or selling a house, they’re going to want to work with someone that they feel they can’t trust. And you show people, trust your actions. You don’t say you can trust me. You know, you show them that you can be trusted. Totally. And I always say consistency creates confidence. I think so often people wait for confidence to do something or be consistent, but it’s actually the opposite. The only way you’re going to feel confident is by doing things consistently. And so I love that chapter. The other one I love is the beauty of experiment experimentation. I think people are so petrified to screw up for like, but tell me exactly what I can do so that I don’t have, you know, so I know exactly the outcome and cause it, so you can talk about, can you talk about how experimenting, which means sometimes having a false result, sometimes having a positive result, how can that help you? I guess, achieve what you want and also be content while you’re doing it? Well, I think it’s really as entrepreneurs. I mean, it’s really tough to get anywhere without experimenting. And if we’re constantly afraid of it and constantly afraid of like, what if I mess up? What if I mess up and you go into it? Like what, how would you act if like you can’t mess up? You know? Like we always say like, oh, there’s no failure. Like you learn from it. But like, we don’t actually apply that. It’s like, but we actually do learn from that. Like, no one, I got to the point and why I started embracing experimentation because I was so worried about getting rejected. I was so worried about messing up or something like that. I got to the place where I was like, I’d rather be in the arena, messing up than on the freaking sidelines, trying to be perfect at this right away. Like, I want to Be nothing about It and doing nothing. Like I want to be in the, I want to be doing something, not actually, you know, like, I, I don’t want to just be on the outline on the outside because there’s also just like, I think we regret the actions we don’t take and we regret the chances. We don’t take more than regretting them, quote, unquote, not working out. And we can expect, like I expect that it’s probably not going to work out the way that I, I think because I’m a, I’m always like, this is going to go terribly. So let’s go. Like, I mean, also I think I would probably say that your way of experimenting inspired me cause we’ve been working together so long. I mean, you experiment, you try so many different things and you were never, I mean, you had your things that came up here and there, you were always willing to pivot and try something new and see what was going to really resonate with people without maybe you had your own personal things about if you took it personally or what, but I never got that. And I was always like, that’s really interesting because you were never like caught up in it. And I think that that has led you to, to like, you’re now doing all the things like that. You said you were going to do it doesn’t look the way that you thought it was going to look Not at all. Yeah. And Amy and I have been working together for 10 years. And so it’s so funny, more than that for 10 years. So she has seen so people it’s so funny, Jamie, cause people will come to me and say like, but you know, they think we’re special unicorns or something. Right. And I’m like, Jamie, if you could tell them all the, and I’m not saying you should right now, but I’m saying you, you have seen it over a decade and they’re just seeing what happened this year. But it’s the whole decade of experimenting that makes it look so good now. Right? Exactly. You have iterated. I have designed all your iteration. We have done, we have massage messaging, everything. I mean, and it’s, I’ve done the same. I’ve tried so many different things. I mean, at one point I add a freaking app, an app that I was doing at one point I was like writing for a website. It was freelance writing. I’ve always done a bunch of things and I guess I’m always good at quitting. Like I’ll quit something. That’s not really jiving. Like if I give it my all and then it’s still not working, I’ll quit or I’ll pivot or I’ll change because I’d rather just try things and experiment and be wrong than just not do anything. Because I actually, I’ve known a lot of people I’ve even had clients who they come with, their best intentions and nothing ever gets launched. Nothing ever gets out there. And it’s like the same way that I look at books, which you can apply to anything. It’s like, there’s nothing you can do with a blank page, but there’s a lot you can do with a sh like crappy first draft. You know, you can’t do anything with your thoughts. Like I had to make a promise to myself like, yeah, you, and you have to promise yourself, you have to really value yourself that like, if I have an idea, I’m going to at least try to bring it to fruition because I actually had to stop like telling people all my lavish plans, because I was like, I’m not following through on all of like all these things. I mean, I, I, in some ways I was, but in some ways I wasn’t and I T I vowed to myself. I was like, you’re not allowed to tell people anything that you’re doing unless you’re working toward it, because they’ve actually found, I read this study that like, you get some sort of hit of something when you tell people what you’re going to be doing. And so, Yeah, you need a hit when you do it. Not when your ugly Take on this. It’s like for, I always plan for it to be terrible at first. And then I’m like, I’m just going to keep doing it until I like it. And chances are, I don’t like it. And then I change it. And I mean, I just, I just, I think people expect to do one thing once and then it’s done Well. They look at other people and they make that assumption because what I recognize too, is like, I was making all these plans, all these expectations, my life was like heavy with expectation. And then it wouldn’t go the way I expected. But then I started to interrogate. I was like, where did I get this expectation from? Like, where did this plan come from? And obviously it would usually come from, oh, I compared myself to someone on Instagram who their, their thing looked this way. And so why didn’t mind look this way? And I CA and I come up with this whole big expectation and plan and how it’s supposed to go. And then I get disappointed and angry with myself that it doesn’t go the way that someone else’s. I’m like, I just now need to, I, I have like a rough vision, but how it’s going to all work out the timing, the details who it’ll be with what it’ll happen. I have no idea. Like I just, I give into the unknown, and sometimes you really need to do that, even though we want the control so bad, we have to recognize that like, wanting the control will keep us from trying the things that are gonna lead to, you know, that thing that we’re going to really Excel at. Totally. And you never know. I mean, I found that when I have a plan, I often like aim low or my expectations get blown out of the water in a positive way that only if I could have gone left, instead of the way I wanted to go, I wanted to go. Right. But I went left and left was so much better than I could’ve ever imagined so quickly. Could you talk to us about, you have this ritual called the magical thinking ritual. Can you explain it pretty quickly? And then I want to leave people with just a portion of your book that I think will help them maybe spark their journey of being content. Okay. So magical thinking, this is you write it in a journal and everything that you want to happen. So, okay. I want, I want peace in my career. So you turn it into, or like, I want time. So you turn it into like an affirmation that’s already present. So you say, like, if you want time, you say, I have an abundance of time. There’s always more than enough time for me to do all the things that I love and care about. You know, you kind of like do that and then you write it down. Like I write probably 20 affirmations every day. I look like a crazy person. Cause I have journals filled with the same thing written over and over. But why I do it in the morning is it trains my mind to understand where I’m going, what I’m intentional about, and what I am aiming to feel. And it trains my mind to think that it’s possible. So, I didn’t think this would work. And then like two or three weeks into it. And I started this 2017, my perpetual negativity, the worst I could ever think about myself. Always seeing that like, you know, nothing is ever good enough. Gratitude is stoop bid. All of this just completely switched. I started seeing things completely differently and it was really impactful. I think sometimes we hear affirmations and we think, we just say it like a couple of times to ourselves, but the writing, there’s something, there’s another study that was done. That like the writing of it makes it imprint. And it really, really gets us. And the repetition it’s like our brains are very suggestible. So we have to keep reminding ourselves, this is how we want to think this is how we interpret our lives. This is the way that we want to feel. And we need to like remind ourselves of that. Pretty like almost every day. Yeah. You have to. Otherwise, it’s so easy to go off to everything else. And so it’s like always like bringing us back, bring us back. I love that ritual. So, Jamie, I’m gonna read what to me was like, I don’t know when I read this paragraph. I like it. I read it almost, not every day, but like, you know, those moments where I’m just like, I can’t fall asleep or I’m waking up in the morning and I just being slow. I read this and it says, this is the last paragraph of the book. What are you waiting for? Who is coming to give you permission? It’s a radical act to stop waiting, to give yourself permission. You’ve been waiting for all the pieces of yourself. You’ve put them on layaway, bring them back in. Trust yourself, love yourself. Nobody out there gets to decide who you are. Nobody out there gets to tell you what you’re worth this world may try to make you believe. Other people hold the power over you, but they don’t. When you take it all back within you realize they never had any power to begin with. You realize that there is a fiery revolution inside you just waiting to be sparked like the match. Thank you so much, Jamie, thank you for writing this book. It’s radically content and you can find it radicallycontent.com. Jamie also is a fresh of breath air on Instagram. You can follow her at JamieVaron.com and you also have a great course called live with intention. You can find out about that at JamieVaron.com. Jamievaron.com. Thank you, Jamie. Thank you, Jennifer. This was so wonderful. Loved chatting. Hey, want to grab a copy of Jamie’s book, radically content for free. I’d love to send you. I have three extra copies and I’d love to send them to you. So all you have to do is leave a review on iTunes about this episode. Tell us what you thought. What was your biggest takeaway? And shoot me an email at Jennifer at agent grad school.com. If you’re one of the first three people to leave a review and send me an email, I’ll ask for your mailing address and I’ll send you out. One of my, the copies of the extra copies of the book I have, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. I told Jamie, I said, when I opened the Amazon box with my books, I guess I went, I’ve never done that for a book. It’s so beautiful. And so I can’t wait to send you a copy so you can see it for yourself. So again, just leave a review, and tell us what you thought of this episode. Shoot me an email. jennifer@agentgradschool.com. I’ll let you know if you’re one of the first three people I’ll ask you for your mailing address and off, they will go. 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