Are You Acting Like An Amateur or A Pro In Your Real Estate Business?

On today’s episode, we’ve got the third of our fore Book Club discussions. This one for our agent Grad School Summer Book Club pick for August, which was the Book Turning Pro By Steven Pressfield. This one caused a lot of controversy when we talked about it in the office. So listening and I’m so curious to know what you think about this book and what the author says. It takes to go from amateur to pro. Welcome to this episode of Confessions of a Top Producing Real Estate Agent I’m your host. Jennifer Myers listen in. As I share exactly what I did to go from not being able to sell a house for years to becoming one of the top 1% of agents in the U S to even opening my own brokerage full of agents helped me serve all the clients that were coming my way. I taught those agents at the same strategies I used in date to become a top producing agent. Now through this Podcast and agent crowd School dot com. I’m sharing those same modern marketing and business strategies with you. Most of which I learned from looking outside the real estate industry, no fluff, no theory, no outdated sales techniques or paying for leads, just the exact steps to get you the real estate business you’ve always wanted. And the life outside of your business, you’ve always wanted to let’s make it happen and dive into today’s episode. I can’t wait to dive into this Book this month was Turning Pro By Steven Pressfield. Now you actually, Amy were the one who Googled him. I knew he was the author of war of art, which is a wonderful book that I love, love, love, but you were the one who told me that he was also writing some movies, right? Yep. Yeah, he did. Yeah. So one of the ones that, one of the movies, the only movie I really watched of his is the legend of bagger Vance, which is such a good movie. I had no idea until you told me that he was the one who wrote that film. Yeah, I know. Right. It is really great. Good stuff. Yeah. It was like, Oh yeah. And when I, when I have authors that I really like, and I always Google it to them to find out, and especially him, this is his journey too, and sharing his journey. So then I was like, what, what else is he done? You know? Right. Well, what’s amazing about, I think without this, without his ability to Turn Pro, which is exactly what we’re going to talk about today, this book Turning Pro without his ability to turn pro and write a book about turning Pro, he would probably have never written any of those movies, either the legend of bagger Vance. So yeah, for sure. I wanted to start out with just explaining what this book is about. And I think simply put this book is about how to fight resistance. That keeps us from getting our life’s true work out into the world. Let’s start by talking about the concept of who An Amateur is and what going Pro is and how it relates to being a real estate agent. And if it’s okay, I’d love to start with reading a page in the book, which I think encapsulates really the whole premise and kind of can set the conversation for us today. It’s page five in the book, and I’m going to just read through it really defines what it means, what it means to Turn Pro. And I think encapsulates what this whole book is about. So bear with me for a second. I’m going to read it and then we’ll get, we’ll get started on what this means for real estate agents. So it says the model, this book proposes is the model of the Amateur and the professional, the thesis of this book is that what ails you and me has nothing to do with being sick or being wrong. What ails us is, is that we are living our lives as amateurs. The solution, this book suggests is that we Turn Pro Turning Pro is free, but it’s not easy. You don’t need to take a course or buy a product. All you have to do is change your mind. Turning Pro is free, but it’s not without costs. When we Turn Pro we give up a life with which we may have become extremely comfortable. We give up a self that we have come to identify with and to call our own. We may have to give up friends, lovers and even spouses, which we’ll get to Turning Pro is free, but it demands sacrifice. The passage is often accompanied by an interior Odyssey whose trials are survived only at great costs, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. We pass the remembering when we turn pro and it hurts. It’s messy and it’s scary. We tread in blood when we turn Pro, but Turning Pro is not for everyone. We have to be a little crazy to do it, or even want to do it in many ways, the passage chooses us. We don’t choose it. We simply have no alternative what we get when we Turn Pro is what we find our power. I love that so much, but it also sounds really scary passing through a membrane and treading in blood. But I think this book applies to real estate agents in such a huge way. And I’m curious, Amy, what are your thoughts on this concept of an Amateur versus a Pro and how it relates to us real estate agents? Like what are your general thoughts? Yeah, I mean, we definitely try to in blood okay. Falling down or like people, or, you know, I mean, we definitely, you know, I know when he says that we turn to the blood, I think of it only Turn Pro like, like we’re in the heartbeat of our job, you know, literally like all of it and yeah. Yeah. I think there is a real difference between an amateur and a pro and like, we are going to get in to like those, those features, but it definitely relates to real estate a hundred percent. And you know, when we add, and we’ll talk about it a little bit later, I think the quality’s, and that’s what intrigued me about this book and really, you know, But there are a lot of real estate agents, you know, in, in a lot of people who go in to this, but not a lot of people stay. Right. And I do think that’s part of that Amateur Pro and then the PM. And then there are a good chunk of people who do stay that, like he says, you know, I think, where did you just read where he talks about like being comfortable, like we can make a comfortable living and that’s it. But when he’s talking about is, is advancing yourself so far and above, you know, the comfortable living or, you know, maybe what you set your goal at to be the first year you got into real estate are second or third, or you in like maybe 10 a year, or maybe you’re like, Oh, if I get, you know, X amount of sales that’s, I will be thrilled. You know? And, and he’s, he is saying, you know, it’s not about that. It’s not about the product, its it’s not about, you know, buying listings or it’s about changing your mind, how you see yourself. One thing I love about this concept of Turning Pro is he says on page 75 Turning Pro is a decision, but it is such a monumental life overturning decision. But the moment is frequently accompanied by powerful drama and emotion. Often it’s something we’ve been avoiding for years or something we would never willingly face unless overwhelming events compelled us to. And he goes on to talk about remembering that moment where you Turn Pro. And I think when it comes to real estate agents, you know, I, I do just working in the business for so long. You really do see a difference between agents that are amateurs in a bit agents that have chosen and made the decision to Turn Pro and you can see it, you know, to your point that you just made a minute ago, we, as agents can really make a comfortable life, but not necessarily by By really acting like an Amateur. Right. And there’s a moment when you decide, you know what? I want more than that. And I think on page 90, he talks about the qualities of being a professional. And I think it would be really helpful to list what these are so that we can then talk about how we as a real estate agents can be more professional versus Amateur. So it says it’s got on page 90 and 91 of the book for people following along, you’ve got 20 qualities of the professional and I’m going to read through them quickly. But I think this list of 20 characteristics really does make the difference in real estate agents in the Business between an amateur and a pro like these 20 things alone will make the difference of going pro as an agent. So number one, the professional shows up every day number to the professional stays on the job all day. But the number three, the professional is committed over the long haul. Number four, the professional for the professional, the stakes are high and they’re real. And then he goes on to say star or the PR the professional is patient or the professional seeks order or the professional demystifies, the act in the face of fear. They accept no excuses, professionals plays as it it’s leis. The professional is prepared. This is a good one. The professional does not show up in a professional dedicates themselves to mastering technique. Another big one. The professional does not hesitate to ask for help. I love that professional does not take failure or success personally. Another huge one for real estate agents. The professional does not identify with his or her instrument, meaning I think real estate, you know, their identity is not necessarily created because of their craft, the professional endures adversity, the professional selves validates the professional reinvents herself, which I love the professional is recognized by other professionals that list alone. You know, if you think about that minute, when you Turn Pro and I don’t know, Aimee, do you feel it in one of my first questions to you is do you feel that you’ve turned pro when it comes to real estate? And if so, do you remember that moment when it happened? Like Steven says in his book, you’ll remember the moment when you Turn Pro Oh gosh. You know, I’ve been thinking, I’ve been thinking about it a lot, reading the book, you know, I feel like maybe it happened a few years ago when I decided, when I decided to take a different path and start working with you. And that’s why we did this. Just the truth is, you know, when I changed my mind about what I thought real estate wise, right? And I did, I had these different notions based on what I was doing, what I had done in the past, what people, other people have said, some of those things work, some did it, but it wasn’t really super happy. And there was just so much uncertainty and so much feeling rudderless, you know? And when I, you know, met you and we started this journey together of a aging, well agent grad school, what it is now, but before it was You training me. And I really feel like that was a moment for me. I changed my mind. I opened my mind. I was willing to learn and do things differently from someone I didn’t really know. And I can’t, you know, I can’t tell you why. I mean, I, I could say, Oh, they’re outside circumstances. Or, you know, I don’t know, a hundred percent, except for that, I knew what I was doing was not giving me the results. I want it. Right. It was giving me, okay, some years, some years it was giving me a very comfortable financial living. But you know, what he talks about in this book is way above, you know, that a comfortable financial life. It it’s a whole other calling and belief system, which, you know, I think as realtors, people don’t see us, you know, they see us as we sell houses or some people do It so much more than that. When you turn Pro, it is yes. Make a decision to make it more than hi, I’m X realtor. And I sell ex houses and ex neighborhood, you know, I want it to get out of it. I wanted it. I wanted the, I don’t know if I knew, but I wanted a different box and I want to do several boxes. You know, one thing I would say about my, my own watching you Turn Pro and I can tell I I’m going to share my story of when I think I Turn Pro, but what I do, what I want to You I think you’ve, Turn Pro twice, but I think that’s okay. You know, we’re gonna talk in a minute about starting pro more than once. And I think you Turn Pro twice. I think, I think it was once what you mentioned is wanting to do things in a different way, but I think An another time I’ve seen you Turn Pro is when you, you had a change in mindset, in my opinion, from, at some point, maybe about three years ago, when it stopped being about selling houses and getting clients, and you really made a shift to building a Business for the long haul things like, you know, everything that we talk about the age of grad school, but really building a business rather than being a real estate agent. I feel like you Turn Pro a second time. Would you agree with that? Yeah. Yeah. Yes, definitely. I think that, that like, yes, that was kind of that first, like he says that first time when you feel that you’ve made that decision, you know, because it, when we talked about Turning Pro like we said, everything about that decision was uncomfortable. It was uncomfortable for me to come to someone. I didn’t know. It was, it was scary. It was like, you know, I was putting it all out there, you know, it was giving up. What I thought was when I thought I knew and that’s letting go of ego. So all of these things, you know, and that was the first kind of turning Pro. And then the second, I think it was again, after these things started working for me and I was able to really start honing what I was doing. It was like that second Turning Pro yeah. Where I was really focused in on a Business. And what do you do talks about longer term goals facing no excuses, play it as it lays. I love that for real. Estate tell me more about that one, because honestly, that one is a hard for me to wrap my brain around. So help me understand how you apply that for a real estate. For me, I apply it, you know, as you know, real estate is, is we really have, you know, people go to work and for the most part, they have a, a, you know, a fair measure of control about their jobs. But we literally are beholden to a lot of outside circumstances. You know, it might be interest rates. It might be what the economy’s doing in general. It might be the government. It could be where we live. There could be a hurricane. And, you know, and like, I, I heard that the other day that a lot of homes in Houston are going into foreclosure because they didn’t get insurance and the people can’t make payments and all of these kinds of things. Right. And so if you’re a realtor there, you might be dealing with that. Like, we, there is a million things that we can’t control and it changes so much. Right. So we’ve got to learn to like, to adapt, you know, we have this, like we have these fundamentals in place and then we have to play it as it lays. You know, for me, particularly like at, at, at one point the government was giving back like $8,000 for first time home buyers, after the crash, I was playing that card, you know, that was a great card and it was great for, and it, it sustained my business, you know, for a long time, this is before I Turn Pro necessarily, but we have to play it as it lays. And we have to also that means, I think, let it go when we don’t, when our clients don’t get something or we don’t get what we want, you know, we play, if we’re a Pro we showed up that day, we showed up every day, we’ve done our best and we’ve played the cards is that we have played. And if it, and if it lays the way we don’t want it too. It’s okay. ’cause we have a business, a sustainable business. Right. And we’re going to keep, you know, we’re not contingent on everything. Oh, this deal fell apart. And then my whole day’s run. Right. Okay. That’s so helpful because I, you know, as I go through that list, that was the one I was like, what does that mean for real estate agent? What does that mean for me? But I really appreciate your perspective on that, because now that you say it that way, I’m like, yes, that’s exactly it. That’s perfect. I think so. Right. Yes. One thing I want to make sure it’s clear to everybody, hopefully they’ve read the book and feel the same way that we do, but I want to share that moment. You just shared Your moment of turning Pro. I want to read on page 83 when Steven talks about Turning Pro because I, I, I laughed so hard. This is how it felt like for me, when I turned pro, he said for two hours, I’ve made myself sit there, torturing out some trash that I chucked immediately into the shit camp. That was enough. I put the machine away. I went back to the kitchen in the sink, set 10 days of dishes for some reason. And I love this. For some reason, I had enough excess energy that I decided to wash them. The warm water felt pretty good. The soap were doing their things. It hit me that I had turned a corner. I was okay. I would be okay from here on, do you understand? I hadn’t written anything good. It might be years before I would, if I ever did it at all, that did not her. What had counted was that I had after years of running from it, actually sat down and done my work. And I literally almost in tears right now, because I felt like that’s exactly how I felt, what I Turn Pro. And I felt like I was running. Like, I can remember feeling like I was running. I don’t know. I didn’t even know what work to do. You know what I mean? I didn’t know what it was that I had to do, but there was this moment where said, I’m Going to figure this out and I’m going to sit here. And I can remember to this day, I remember it, it was an, it was an August. And you know, when the market slows down and I had, that was the August, but I decided to put into place the system that we use at dwell and the system that I teach an agent Grad school, starting with putting every single person in a database and having a newsletter, having a weekly newsletter and beginning to write that newsletter and sending it to that list. And that database, that was my moment. And I had tried to run and try to make it easier and try to do what everything else, what everybody else was saying that I should be doing. And I was avoiding what I really knew I had to do, which was show up consistently and market myself and create content over and over and over again, it was almost like I sat down and finally like, got my shit together. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that that’s exactly how it felt. What do you just described? Like two hours of sitting there and just doing it and feeling like it wasn’t good, but that you’re going to be okay from that moment on, because you knew what it took this time and you did it and, and that, yeah. And I love how he says after he said I would be okay from here. And then he says, do you understand the question March? And to me, the first I was like, do you understand? Do you know? And then it’s kind of what you just said on page five. Or do you understand? Because what he said is you don’t, it’s a decision, right. It’s not really an action. And like, like go run five, you know, it’s like, so I think that’s what he’s alluding back to. Right? Like, do you understand? I didn’t do anything, but I did everything right. But like I did, I got up and I like sat down at my, my typewriter, which doesn’t really mean anything, except it means everything. Right. Yep. Like he didn’t really, he didn’t knock out the biggest novel of his life. He didn’t do that for four years and years and years, years, you know, he turned pro and that’s why this is why it’s so interesting because it’s, and some people, or maybe it’s hard to wrap your head around that, but you know what, I get it, he is saying, you know, that that’s all it takes. Is it, it’s a decision. You know, I think the two things decision, but then also in my opinion, there is a little bit of action to sit down and actually do the work that isn’t glamorous. And isn’t it fun. And one thing I want to touch on is the delayed gratification. That is one quality of a, Pro the fact that you are going to sit down, like, like you just said, he sat down for two hours and did this work. And he threw it in the trash can because it was terrible. And I think part of being a Pro is understanding the concept of delayed gratification. And I think that’s a concept that really resonates with, with real estate agents. And I’m curious your thoughts on that. And then I have something I, to share also about this concept of delayed gratification and going Pro in real estate. Yeah. Yeah. Delayed gratification. That’s a big one. You know what I mean? I think we all, I go, I went to the ice cream or, you know, I want to be thin and not do the work and do the work and this idea that, you know, it is it, and there is a lot of like focus, like how many numbers did you do? Like, what did you have the biggest year ever? Or how many sales, how many houses or any transactions all, or is super important. Right. But, you know, I think sometimes we can get caught up in that like outcome of like, okay, I have to make a certain amount. And instead of just doing the work, right, sometimes I can be like, Oh, how many transactions I’d do this month? And I’m not on target. And instead of just like, am I doing the work in front of me and my answering the emails that I need to answer? Am I responding? Am I showing up at work? You know, cause I, I get caught in that. Like I want it, I want it now we need to make sure it was happening right now. And I spending more time thinking about that than I am like doing my work. You know, if I’m not being a Pro or if I’m being in the moment in my Amateur mode, you know? And I think that to me, that’s, that’s part of that self, you know, that the need for it to have it right Now. Well, I also think what’s, what’s amazing about this concept of delayed gratification and Turning Pro and what it has to do with real estate agents is oftentimes when I teach new agents, you know, the system I say to them, this is not a quick fix. This is not something that’s going to overnight turn you into a Top selling real estate agent, what we’re building here and what I’m teaching an agent Grad School is a system and a foundation that you can build on top of it. And I also say, it’s almost like when you build a snowman, right? You have a couple of You putting together your business, you’re putting together your contacts and then you have this little bit of a ball, right. And then as you’re starting to get a little bit bigger and your starting to make some traction, your starting to have some clients, all of a sudden that ball becomes easier to role. And what happens is that snow kind of picks up itself, right? And then all of a sudden you barely have to touch it. And that ball can, can go down the Hill by itself and pick up speed and pick up speed. And that’s kind of, what about, in my opinion, what delayed gratification is. It’s, it’s all about understanding that if you continue to, to, to market yourself in the correct way, so, and you do it consistently, we have the right message to go into the right audience slowly, but surely you are going to see the results, but it will not be automatic. And sometimes that scary. I know, even for myself, I’m like, is this working? Is anyone there? And they’d listen to me, you know, but then when you look six months back and you say that was, the moment is saying this and doing this and doing it over and over and over again, like our newsletter that we send out every single week, that is a delayed gratification, the consistency, and the fact that you were doing it for the long-term that whole, that it’s glue that holds the business together. And that’s a perfect example. You know, I think a lot of people, when I start telling them, Oh, you’re going to start sending out your newsletter and this is how that’s going to work. They think immediately they’re going to get three new clients and no, that’s not how that works going pro and understanding that that’s the work that you have to do and understanding that there is some delayed gratification as part of it. That is part of this Amateur versus pro. And I love this concept. Yeah. Yeah. I really don’t think there’s enough. Talk about like the, the, the, you know, the building of that Business, which is another reason I, I do think, like we talk about Turning Pro twice in my incidence, you know, working for me because, you know, it’s the unglamorous stuff that people are like, Oh, I don’t know if you know what, this is really work. You know, like you said, you’re sitting at home, you’re wondering, and it does work. And it’s that concept in that belief that, you know, like he talks about in these 20 things, 20 concepts, like you’re showing up every day, if I’m not doing a part of it, it’s going to show up in six months, you know, if I’m not doing my newsletter and not that I, I mean, I do it, but if I’m not like, you know, tracking my clients, if I’m not paying attention to those details, like he talks about that, you know, and being patient and demystifying, you know, I like that one too. It’s like, there’s no grand. I think we all looked for the leg Grande in the beginning of, at least in my real estate kit. Whereas the grand answer, what is the grand product? That’ll give me all my clients and not be rich. And I can go on vacation all the time. It was like, you know, this and we are and where is it? And in any, and all the people we’ll sell it to you. I’ll tell you all kinds of stuff. And the truth of the matter is it’s not, there is already resides in us. Right. And we just have to, like you said, hone it in. And we have to have this system and we have to then do the things he talks about doing, which is not always glamorous the glamor is it, it requires delay gratification, you know, and you have to believe it when you are doing it. You know, I’m putting this newsletter together, you know, okay. We’re not thinking like this are a hundred people are gonna read it or a 300. We were just consistently doing it over and over and over because the results will come That’s right. No, kind of like when he wrote his movies, right? Like legend of bagger Vance, I guarantee that he sat there and I think he talks about it in the, the war of art. He talks about fighting the resistance and sitting down and understanding that if you’re a writer, you write, if you’re, you know, you got to sit down and you got to do it. And it’s great to think about the movies and it’s great to be on set. And it’s great to have all those outcomes. But the fact of the matter is if you don’t sit there on those days that you don’t want to do, and you don’t do the work and you don’t, you know, get, get to the word count, then you’re not going to get to the movies. Right. And so the same thing with real estate agents being a successful real estate agent, when it comes down to it is very boring. It is, it is, you know, you got to sit down and you got to do the things that aren’t shiny in our grade and don’t look Awesome. And It don’t feel awesome to become, you know, a little sexier and less boring over time. When you know that this is going to give you a result, you know? Yes, it is delayed to gratification and you know, like databases, aren’t super sexy unless you live in like California, maybe. I don’t know, but I don’t think they’re sexy. They’re either it to be sexier when your database starts to fill up with what you wanted. You know, it’s, it’s this idea like we’re realtors, like we want more clients, we want a bigger business. We want our business to look X, Y, and Z, but what are we doing? You know, what are we actually doing? And that’s where the system works. This is what you do. If you want to have the success of a good, you know, a realtor, a successful realtor and beyond like, like financial success, but like, can any talks about that? You know, pushing yourself to the next, to the next limit, you know, to the next boundary, like you have to do these things, these, or these, or as important as showing a house there is important as, you know, sending a listing, it’s all important, you know, but I think that, I see a lot of people take the shortcuts and it shows, it shows up, you know, just like in any profession or sports or dance or any kind of arts, you know, and I’m sure when he said, sit down to write like the legend of bagger Vance, he wasn’t like, this is going to be a movie. I mean, maybe he wanted it to be that, but I think about all the things that he wrote before that. Yeah, exactly. You know, when you talk about delayed gratification, I think he wrote for a lot of years without any money or any, any acknowledgement really. Right. Right. Well, and I think One thing, one concept that I loved that I think you’re touching on is this concept of a Turning Pro even when you were Pro right. So the one story that I like in this book is on page here is Roseanne Roseanne cash, page 77. I love this story about Roseanne Cash, because even when we, we feel like we have Turn Pro even when we feel like we are at the top of our game, there is room to Turn Pro again. And I’m not going to read this whole story about her. Her story goes from page 77 to page 82. And what she says is, let me find this one. She says, essentially that she was at the top of the game by any measure, she, she was a success and she started feeling like she had to go back to the drawing board a little bit. She said, I realized that I had earlier Been working only within known range, Never pushing far outside the comfort zone to take any real risks. And she then goes on to say, I started training as This, as if I was a runner in both technique and stamina. I started paying attention to everything, both in the studio and out, I find myself drifting, drifting into daydreams and she tested her instincts and her authenticity, musically, I love this story. And then she says, everything seems new, frightening, and tremendously exciting. I had wakened from the morphine sleep of success into the life of an artist. I loved that. I love this concept of even when you think that you are at the top of your game, and even by all standards, it would be considered a success that even then I loved the words that she used, the morphine, what it was it, what did she say? The morphine sleep of success. That a lot of times Some pros. They say, okay, I made it to the top. I’m good. There’s nothing more. It was nothing more for me to learn. There’s nothing more for me to be better. And one thing that you were just saying, you know, about the, the idea of success. Sometimes it’s not financial success, you know, what if you are selling and I know I’ve been there, what of, you’re selling $50 million worth of real estate a year and you’re miserable in your personal life. Right. I wouldn’t call that a success. And so it’s about getting back to that drawing board and going and going back to the basics. Right. And Turning Pro again and again, and again and again. Yeah. Yeah. I think like the, you know, again, financial success is, is kind of like, you know, it’s, it’s always put out, there is the most important yardstick, but really, you know, the more you, the more you Turn Pro and the more you’re honing that craft, it’s like, it’s, it’s important. Don’t get me wrong. It’s a very important to be able to sustain yourself and to have a good livelihood, you know, but it, but it’s not the focus so much anymore when you start to Turn Pro it, it takes a back seat On page one 16. They say the other thing about the changes Roseanne made after her dream is that she didn’t do it to earn more money or achieve greater fame or sell more records. She made the changes out of respect for her craft when she made them to become a better and more powerful musician. So for real estate agents, it’s not always about making more money or selling more houses. Right. You know, then the challenge becomes, you know, I don’t know for some that might be enough, you know what I mean? Maybe being an Amateur is where somebody wants to be. And it there, if that’s your path, that’s cool too. You know, I don’t think either of us are saying like, Oh, you have to Turn Pro, you know, but the book says, if you want to do it and here’s how to do it, and you’re going to have a richer quality of life and you’re going to also, your craft is going to get better and better and better. You’re going to get better. Like you said, even if, even in a second time around with someone who by every measure was very successful and you didn’t read the part, but it talks about how her managers and things, or like, we want you to start a fan club. We want you to do all this stuff. And that felt really unnatural to her and not really making her a better artist to love that. To me, she didn’t want to do all the things that people said, here’s what you do when you were at this level of success. Here’s what you have to do. Right? We said, no, I don’t. And I love that. And as real estate agents, we have the freedom to do the same exact thing in our own businesses. You don’t have to do X, Y, and Z. Right now you could do it in a different way. I was chuckling, as you were, as you were explaining, as you were saying, not everybody has to Turn Pro and how does it, how it is a decision, because we were reminiscing about our book clubs, conversation about the office and how there was some people in the room who didn’t think Turning Pro is the good, it was the right idea. And I, and so I’m curious, I think you really enjoyed seeing that dichotomy. So what are your thoughts on that? Yeah. Yeah. It was very interesting because the people that really weren’t into this Book or into Turning Pro were really against, or really not into it, you know, there was no in between with this book, which I always tells me we were onto something. Right. When there’s so much, like, some people are very, like, we were practically crying over him, washing the dishes and a decision. That’s great. And, and then the other half of the people are like, what? It was terrible, you know, they were polarized, they hated the book, they hated it. They felt it was very a preachy and, you know, condescending, you know? So you got to think about it. You know, there are a group of people that this is not going to resonate with or whatever reason. And I don’t know, like if Turning Pro scenes, I didn’t have that experience. And like, I took a lot from this book, but I know there was a group of people who just did not, it didn’t like it. They didn’t understand it. My takeaway was that they thought Turning Pro was too much of a sacrifice. Yes. Sort of a sacrifice on the other things in their life. Yeah. I think they read it more literally, like, I didn’t read it, like, we’re really going to tread in blood. You know, I do go out there and like, you know, like, I don’t know, like try to blood. I mean, I, you know, this idea of like, you know, I think what he was saying is that, you know, anything that’s, that’s outside of like being a Pro there’s, there might be a sacrifice because of something people don’t understand. Right. And that you Your, you might have a hard time with family, friends, spouses, you know, but some people took it as leave your spouse, leave your children, you know? And I was like, I even confronted one of the people I said, where does it say that you should leave your spouse and children? You know, what does it say that in the book? And he’s like, no, no, no, no, no. Well, I mean, it doesn’t really say that, but he’s just implying. And I’m like, yeah, I don’t think he is saying that. You know, I don’t think he is telling you to leave your family. I just think that he’s a, he’s being honest about, you know, it can cause it can be difficult because the easier road is to take the, the road that people take, right? The same road, follow the same path do what’s expected, don’t make waves, you know? And when people don’t understand things, it’s difficult. So I think, and its scary. And I wondered if like it kind of rocked a foundation of what some of these people thought they had like, Oh he’s not good enough to just be an Amateur like maybe some people took it personally too well. And I think back to the back to where we started, you know, this is a good place to come full circle, which is the way that Steven on page five, discuss Turning Pro is a decision and it’s not for everyone. It’s not for everyone. And that’s okay. And all we’re saying, all I’m saying is I think this is a great book to be able to know that there is a difference, but there is a day there is an Amateur life. And there is a pro-life when there is a day, when there is a decision to be made about which direction you want to go. And I don’t personally necessarily think that’s one is better than the other. But what I think is most important is making sure that you live a life that’s yours. And if, as long as your happy and it says the name of the name of the book, tap your inner power and create your life’s work. As long as you feel like you’re getting your life’s work, whatever that may be into the world. And you’re pleased with the way that that that’s coming through then great. But if you’re not and you feel like you’re running away and you know that your life’s work is being a successful real estate agent and you’re not there yet consider these ideas in this book and how to turn pro and what it takes to turn pro and the qualities of turning a pro and just really, you know, be honest with yourself. I think there was some people in our office who said, you know what, I’m not, I’m not a pro yet. And I thought that that was a really, really wonderful way to look at yourself honestly and say, you know what, no, most of the time I’m not a pro. And, and, and then deciding whether that’s not something you want to do or not. Yeah. And that’s why I like page 90 and 91 of the 20 different qualities, because I think if you go through it and you answer that honestly to yourself, then you really can say, okay, you know, am I doing these things? Am I showing up every day? You know, he’s very specific. It’s not like every other day. It’s like every day, not every day, but also all day. And I think that, that is like, that is, that is what makes a Pro. If you look across the board, you know, you’re not showing up when it’s convenient, you’re not showing up. You know, when you want to show up, you’re showing up when it’s inconvenient, you know, you’re doing the database stuff at 10 o’clock at night when you’d rather be like zoning out to Netflix or something or meeting someone at 8:00 AM downtown because we have to be at work at nine and you don’t get up usually till eight o’clock, you know, I’ve had that happen and that’s, that’s showing up everyday on the job. You know, I think that people get mixed up with the real estate. It’s like, Oh, we can just do what we want and just to meet some clients or, you know, sell some houses and we’re done. It’s like, that’s kind of the Amateur Pro. And if you don’t want to be a pro, then don’t read the book and may, or maybe read the book and decide you don’t want to. But for me, I feel like I have to keep coming back to the 20, you know, these 20 qualities, like the seeking orders as well, you know, how many real estate from the people do know that their coming to the settlement stuff and they don’t know where anything is and stuff, and that’s so important to it. And it’s, aren’t the things, at least when I started in real estate that were emphasized the things that were emphasized or like can be a realtor, you’ll make a lot of money. And that was the number that was a pretty much it just take a test or go find some people and sell them house and get some money. And then just do that again. And you’re like, Oh, that doesn’t, it sounds weird. You know? Yeah. So the other thing I love about this book, and there was so many like good one liners and takeaways that I think all real estate agents can use how to change their mindsets, how to grow their business. One of my favorite one-liners was on page 93 Amateur is tweet and pros work and love that one. And another one is on page 99. The professional does not wait for inspiration. He acts in anticipation of it. Just, just little things like this throughout the book are so, so, so good and really will be helpful in creating good branding, marketing websites. All of the things that we talk about at agent grad school, when we talk about sitting down and doing the work, becoming a pro and really not understanding there’s a difference. And the difference is a choice. And the difference is setting down and doing the things that, you know, a lot of people don’t want to do like websites, Amy. I did Some yesterday. I did it all good. And I felt so good. That’s why, yeah, it feels good. And it feels good to, you know, I think one thing to that in this book gives you permission to, to write and or whatever it is you’re or whatever, you know, in real estate, whatever you’re struggling to do, maybe call or write or whatever you have to do it, it gives you permission to be like, okay, do that. You know, you don’t have there’s he’s not saying like the end result will be that you will be a successful real estate agent. He is saying, you’ve made a decision to do something right. That’s uncomfortable. And you’ve been putting off, he doesn’t say it and it must be a successful. So, you know, that’s, that’s great for me yesterday. I, when I sat down to write, I was like, this, this, this could be wonderful. Or it could be nothing let’s this is ideas, you know? And then from those ideas, I started to really then get better thoughts, better content, all of that stuff. Because I gave myself permission to be like, you know, we’re not publishing this, you know, across the world. This is just, you know, my thoughts, my ideas. So finding that resistance and he talks about that a lot for me, that’s really tough. Like, but you know, he gives me the permission to say, look, I’m just writing it. I’m writing it. And I’m in front of his part. He rode it and throw it away or, you know, throw it away. You know, for me, I’m like, no, I got to keep these things. Cause I go back and look at different moments and inspiration, but like, whatever your afraid of, you know, the idea is that you got to do it and does it matter what happens? You know, if someone cusses, if you call somebody on a cold call, if that’s something you’re struggling with and you know, or someone gives you a, I know people used to say, Oh, call my like friend and they’re looking to buy house. And I would be like, Oh, I don’t know what to say. I don’t want to do this. And I would do it. And usually it, it, it turned out a number of different ways, you know, but it’s, it’s, you know, Some nobody ever was mean to me or anything. Sometimes people are like, Oh, I’m not really interested. Or, you know, I found some a lot or yeah, sure. I’ll talk to you or yeah, you might get the listing, but to get the call, you sat down and you made the call. Sometimes I left a voicemail, but I did it, you know, and that’s all he’s saying, he’s not saying it has to be perfect and look for it. And he said, you know, you just make the decision to do it. So my advice to any agent or whatever, they’re struggling with, whether it’s a website content, you know, making calls a, meeting, a client, putting out like, look trying to get more listings or going on a listing appointment for the first time or even the fifth time. You know, there are times that people might call me for listings and areas that I’m not as familiar with. There might be a resistance, like go in the listing appointment, see if it works for you, you know, but you know, fighting that resistance. And he says, it’s a daily, it’s daily for him to do a daily battle. And that’s true. Yeah. Well, Amy, I would love, I just want it to end this book club discussion with the words that actually end the book and these and the, and that is the hero wanders, the hero sufferers, the hero returns. You are that hero. Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. Remember change happens when you take action. So apply what you learn today to your own real estate business. If this episode has helped you subscribe, leave a review and share it with all your real estate agent friends, and as always, if you want even more great resources to create the real estate business you’ve always wanted. 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